Curse

shoyon456 · Aug 08, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Dervish

[Onslaught] : increased Energy cost to 10. Functionality changed to: "(5..20 seconds.) You attack and move 25% faster."

Okay, so pretty much a perma ias and speed buff, but still tame compared to radical skill buffs. I would suggest simply making it 33%.

[Vow of Strength] : functionality changed to: "(20 seconds.) Adds +5..35% damage to your attacks against foes not suffering from any conditions."

Pointless in PvP (which is where I assume anet intended this update to shake things up, and still less effective in PvE than before. In fact, if you look at other skills in the Earth Prayers line, you'll realize that you can hardly use another spell, such as: [aura of thorns] without loosing the effect.

If they planned on changing this skill (which was unneccessary), I would have suggested making it similar to this [shield of force]. It would sound something like: For 1...10 seconds, your next attack (notice attack skills are still OK) does +5...41% damage. And give it something like a 5 sec recharge.

[Zealous Vow] : increased Energy gained per hit to 1..7; decreased to -3 Energy degeneration.

Fair enough, makes this skill a little more appealing, but not by much.

Really though, I feel my main got shafted during this "monster update" that was designed to make unused skills somewhat usable. I'm quite disappointed at this, and have written anet a very nice letter about their bias' and that this much anticipated update has in retrospect, been of little importance to my dervish.

I've heard from ppl that buffing skills from a "strong class" would be pointless, but this update was meant to make unused skills useful. Instead of anet buffing dervish skills like [arcane zeal] and [pious renewal] which are only useful in VERY rare occassions, they buff what doesn't need to be buffed, at even more appaulling, they only buff 3 elites. Considering dervs are on the lower list with only 15 elites, we really don't need this kind of overlooking.

cellardweller · Aug 08, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

/pve perspective

[onslaught] - An improvement no doubt, but not awesome. More of a "I've-got-nothing-better-to-do-with-my-elite-slot" elite. I'd have added something else to it like "every second all adjacent foes are set on fire for 0..1..1 seconds).

[vow of strength] - Rest in Peace. Reducing incoming attack damage by 66%, causing attacks to miss 90% of the time, making enemy casters easily interrupted, reducing enemy healing by 20% and even causing degen are all more useful than having 1/8 of the team give up their elite slot to do +30ish % damage.

[Zealous Vow] - I've never needed more energy than a zealous scythe can provide. I guess if one could come up with a good one then this could be useful.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 08, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

[Zealous Vow] - I've never needed more energy than a zealous scythe can provide. I guess if one could come up with a good one then this could be useful.

Zealous Vow is more attractive to Dervish Secondaries then dervishes themselves. Hell, it'd even by a great energy management skill for monks using spears.

obsidian ectoplasm · Aug 08, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Zealous Vow is more attractive to Dervish Secondaries then dervishes themselves. Hell, it'd even by a great energy management skill for monks using spears.

Yep i was just about to try that.

and shoyun i agree onslaught should be 33%

lejimmtohy · Aug 08, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

I'm pretty disappointed that nothing exciting happened to Dervishes.

Anyone else think that Aura of the Holy Might should've been buffed at lower ranks in the +damage% part rather than the PBAoE damage?

Guess I'll stick with Wounding Strike being the only useful non-form Elite in PvP. I REALLY want to make Onslaught useful now though. It feels like it should have potential.

Cebe · Aug 08, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

[vow of strength] - Rest in Peace. Reducing incoming attack damage by 66%, causing attacks to miss 90% of the time, making enemy casters easily interrupted, reducing enemy healing by 20% and even causing degen are all more useful than having 1/8 of the team give up their elite slot to do +30ish % damage.

Not to mention that relying on your team members to not bring conditions will be near impossible.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 08, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by obsidian ectoplasm

Yep i was just about to try that.

and shoyun i agree onslaught should be 33%

In fact, at a second glance, this completely overshadows Warrior's Endurance in most parts ('cept for its removable) for W/D users.

[Wind Cutter;AhOSqGtqKFuVYJUwc1cNgJD+WC]

shoyon456 · Aug 08, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

In fact, at a second glance, this completely overshadows Warrior's Endurance in most parts ('cept for its removable) for W/D users.

[Wind Cutter;AhOSqGtqKFuVYJUwc1cNgJD+WC]

Great... too bad this is the derv forum... for derv primary.

Sick combo though, now that I think about that w/ Chilling Vic (since its in wind for pvp now)

But I have actually sent that email, Im sure it will mean nothing, but I'm pretty peeved at the lack of dervish skill changes.

Darkside · Aug 08, 2008, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Not to mention that relying on your team members to not bring conditions will be near impossible.

I agree...finding a team that dishes out zero conditions would be near impossible...and on that note why would you want to be in a team with people that dish out zero conditions? This skill is garbage now as far as I can tell.

Onslaught...meh...I think I liked it better before.

Zealous Vow...still nothing special there either.

Overall the update was good but Dervish's don't really have anything to be excited about.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Aug 08, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

ANet. Please give Dervs something to smile about as well.
Thanks.

-Lotus- · Aug 08, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

First: dervishes did not need a buff at all. we have always been one of the most overpowered classes in the game. No one else auto-attacks for 100+ damage. stop complaining, other classes did need buffs.

[Onslaught] - WOO WOO! this owns face for AB, i suspect it will see its way into some GvG play as well. Just need a good way to inflict deep wound...

[Vow Of Strength] - totally useless. make it unconditional, and reduce the damage bonus if need be, but the current form kills team play.

[Zealous Vow] - this would be nice if we had expensive, low-recharge attack skills to power out... but we dont.

As far as PvE goes, im sticking with Lyssa and Wounding.

MisterT69 · Aug 09, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Zealous Vow is a pretty good skill on a 130 derv bar imo. Definitely beats out essence and balthazar's spirit considering u hit 3 foes=18-21dmg considering how high wind prayers is. Great for a farming build, not much better anywhere else.

SpiritThief · Aug 09, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

[Vow of Strength] might as well read, "Changes to [Wounding Strike]"

Hell if anything VoS is only good for sins now, to boost their spikes since it affects attack skills.

They need to change it back or at least make it so its conditions on "yourself". It was a perfectly fine elite, now made useless. We already lack elites as it is.

This kind of update, really makes it easy to call them complete morons. Conditions are like what 70-80% of the game.

I swear all they want us to use to WS.

I like [Onsaught] now tho. Have a reason to invest in wind prayers.

personally I hope they change VoS back, there was no reason to change it in the place. Now its pure crap in both pvp/pve. So everyone QQ VoS!!

Burst Cancel · Aug 09, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Let's not kid ourselves: frontline dervs aren't going to take any of this shit over Wounding Strike, period.

Zealous is good for scythe warriors, that's about it. The other two skills are complete garbage. Onslaught at 33% might see play. VoS would have to be +200% damage or more @10 Earth to make up for losing Deep Wound.

Abedeus · Aug 09, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

You do realise VoS no longer disables attack skills? So it can be used with Chilling, Mystic/Eremite's and other. Unfortunately, VoS should have unconditional +%dmg to make it worth using, as WS is still the most overpowered Dervish skill.

Burst Cancel · Aug 10, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

You do realise VoS no longer disables attack skills? So it can be used with Chilling, Mystic/Eremite's and other.

Oh, I'm aware of that - I just think it's irrelevant. You're never going to get the damage bonus to trigger unless you can keep conditions off the target - which is idiotic when you're giving up DW, blind, cripple, etc. +40% damage isn't even worth giving up DW for, nevermind anything else.

shoyon456 · Aug 10, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Oh, I'm aware of that - I just think it's irrelevant. You're never going to get the damage bonus to trigger unless you can keep conditions off the target - which is idiotic when you're giving up DW, blind, cripple, etc. +40% damage isn't even worth giving up DW for, nevermind anything else.

In fact today I tried dearly to make Vow of Strength work in AB. The fact is, the target either ran away (no cripple) or was crippled by someone else (or some other condition). It's true, the sacrifice of deep wound and having no way other than crystal wave/teinai's crystals of making sure a target does not have conditions makes this skill dead. And btw, those 2 skills don't even have a place in a dervish build, and very ineffective to be used to CURE an ememies' conditions.

Hopefully anet will fix it with next months build... wow a whole month of it being useless. And just to top it off w/ a quote from the dev comments on how they thought the change would be "good": Vow of Strength now allows powerful attacks as long as conditions are not present, making it interesting to build around.

"Interesting" eh? I wonder who, if anyone, actually looked at the game and tested this skill even the slightest bit before making the change. It's not about building yourself around "no conditions", its that you're stupid if you think other ppl won't be applying them. Sad part is, even if they do change it again, I will no longer be happy with the old version.

EDIT: To Abedeus: Try speccing in scythe mastery for the attks, earth prayers for VoS, and Wind for Chilling. And then there's some mysticism to consider... 4 att spread= fail...

And if you mean PvE... well we all know anything works in PvE.

Bowstring Badass · Aug 10, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnel Ithtirsol

ANet. Please give Dervs something to smile about as well.
Thanks.

They didn't touch [wounding strike].

Sirius-NZ · Aug 10, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

You know, I think I'd rather take Whirling Charge than Onslaught. It's got downsides, but they're relatively minor, and you get to keep your elite slot for something actually important.

shoyon456 · Aug 11, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

They didn't touch [wounding strike].

Whoopdeedoo, one skill! Only reason anet should nerf this is from abuse by rangers, but thats another issue...

The fact is, everytime dervish skills form a niche, ppl QQ and have the skill nerfed. Yes, there were ones that were overpowered (original AoM) but then Izzy goes too far and nerfs the skill into obscurity (Avatar of Grenth).

With the least amount of elites to choose from w/ paras, alot more dervish skills should have niches and a use.